Jul 042010
This week’s Bible Talk took us to Colossians 3:15-17 where we saw that if the peace of Christ rules our hearts, we’ll rejoice together in song.
If you’d like to join the conversation, just add your comment below.
Click on the following link to listen or to download.
Hi Yocky,
Thanks for a great talk. “Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts” (v15) is often used by Christians who talk about seeking God’s will regarding something. They say something like “I just felt peace about choosing to do that”. What do you think about that? Pete Thompson has recommended a book about guidance from God called “Just do something”. I’d like to hear from anyone who has read this book to let us know what it says about guidance and “peace” in your hearts.
However, the context of this verse seems to be about putting to death ungodly acts like sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed (v5), anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language (v8) and lying (v9). Instead, we are called to live peaceably together, with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience (v12), bearing with each other and forgive whatever grievances we may have against one another (v13). Christ’s rule in our hearts should lead to godly behaviour, including thankfulness, gratitude and teaching and admonishing one another through psalms, hymns and spiritual songs (v16).
gday dave – not sure if that’s a comment or a question – you seem to have done a good job at answering it yourself in the 2nd paragraph!
but i think you’re right – in the context of Colossians the ‘peace of Christ’ is different to ‘feeling peace’ about making a decision. to be specific: the ‘peace of Christ’ is about reconciliation with God through Jesus blood, shed on the cross (Col. 1:19-20).
‘feeling peace about making a decision’ is a different kettle of fish altogether – and many people ‘feel peace’ about making dumb (sinful) choices, and ‘don’t feel peace’ about making right (wise) choices – so it’s not necessarily a good basis for decision making.
actually i’ve JUST finished reading ‘Just Do Something’ by Kevin De Young and thought it was FANTASTIC. it’s BIBLICAL, it’s FUNNY, it’s WISE, it’s RELEVANT, and it’s VERY EASY to read, not to mention SHORT. do yourself a favour and buy a copy. i’d lend you mine if i hadn’t already given it to someone else!
Hi Yocky
Suz and I just listened to your talk. Thanks heaps for urging us to THINK deeply about what should be happening when we sing together in church and also to actually SING from the heart.
We were wondering about what someone should do when they don’t like the style of music of a particular song. Given that music is pretty subjective (different people like different stuff), it does make it harder to sing from the heart when the music “jars”. What practical steps can we take to overcome this problem do you think?
good question Pete. i think the key is remembering that singing together is much more than just a ‘me & God’ thing – it’s actually an opportunity to teach & admonish each other as a church family – to encourage each other with the truth of God’s word. that means that, even if a song isn’t in a musical style that’s your preference, you can still be focused on the WORDS of the song, and making the most of spurring others on with those words as you sing.
i’ll be honest and say that there are quite a few songs we sing together at church that i just don’t like (musically). but i don’t allow myself to get stuck on it. and i think it’s inevitable that the older we get, the less ‘in touch’ we all get with the music of the next generation. that means caring far more about the CONTENT of the lyrics, and the OPPORTUNITY of encouraging each other with those words, than we do about the musical style.
This was an interesting talk that I happened to be home for and hear and I have been meaning to comment for awhile. My question to you would be, what about the leaders?
I have been to a couple of churches since leaving SCPC, and the fellowship, or music, is incredible (Baptist and Church of Christ), and you actually do think about the words and not the music and you embrace the experience as a community, a Christ-centred community encouraging one-another.
I believe that a lot of this has to do with the leaders of singing and worship because you can see that their whole heart is singing to God, they smile, clap, laugh, mourn. Its emotive, it’s engagement with the words, and its very casual.
In my visits to SCPC I have noticed that not all the musicians sing, they do not all smile. It really seems like they are struggling just playing the song sometimes, and this is really sad as the whole church can see that. I actually once sat in on rehersal before church at SCPC not that long ago, and the leader of the music for that night came across very abrupt with one of the youth who wasn’t quite getting the beat right. I felt horrible for the guy, and he looked so anxious after that. You could see it on his face all night. I know a number of talented musicians who no longer play because they feel pressured to be perfect.
I think this is a wrong approach. We should celebrate those who want to play or sing at church and give everybody the opportunity that is willing, they don’t need to be perfect, especially if we should be embracing the words and not just the style of music.
On another final note I would question the elderly. Sometimes people who ar emost at peace, incredibly humble and full of wisdom, with a passion for Jesus, however, sometimes it may be physically straining for them to sing, and they should not be discouraged for this.
Thanks for your thoughts Bec. Sam Herd’s currently leading the music ministry, so we thought we’d respond to your comment together – this is a combined effort, from the past and present leaders of the music ministry.
It’s encouraging that you have a good understanding of what music and singing should be like in church. It sounds like the singing has been great at the churches you’ve been at since leaving SCPC – that’s great, and we both agree that SCPC has a lot to learn from other churches when it comes to the singing. Hopefully that came through in the Bible talk above.
It’s worth adding that we both think the song leading has majorly improved at SCPC over the past couple of years or so. The song leaders have had two weekends of intensive song-leading training with a guru from down in Sydney that’s made a big difference – in singing well, in being expressive and smiling, in clapping, and in having the word of Christ dwell richly in their hearts. There’s of course still room for improvement, but let’s not forget that song leading is a very challenging ministry, and one that the SCPC song leaders are working hard at and are continuing to make progress. Another thing worth mentioning is that most of the people in the band find it too hard to sing and play their instrument at the same time, and they’re committed to playing in a way that will most help the congregation sing, not themselves. Their not singing should actually be recognised as an act of humble service.
In regards to what you’ve described as ‘abrupt’ leading during rehearsal: perhaps you’re underestimating the way we relate together as a team? At night church there’s one team every week, and at morning church there’s one team every week – 2 teams. We rehearse and pray together every week, and there’s a significant amount of relationship we’ve built up together. In fact, we’re guessing that you’re actually talking about the 2 of us – how Peter abruptly gives instructions to Sam during rehearsal. There’s something to be said for the need for gentleness – and Yocky’s certainly aware of that! But it’s also worth pointing out that this year the 2 of us spend about 7-8 hours together a week, mainly doing music ministry stuff. Any abrupt instructions (during an often-rushed rehearsal) are within the context of a long-term trainer to trainee relationship, and we both agree we’re on very good terms with each other! You might not be satisfied with that, but we’re certainly comfortable in the way we’re relating to each other and enjoy our relationship as brothers in Christ.
In regards to giving an opportunity to be involved in music ministry to ‘everybody who is willing’ – that doesn’t seem to be the way that Paul describes the body of Christ in 1 Corinthians 12. The biblical picture is that everyone within the body of Christ will have their own unique way of best serving the church family. A willingness to ‘have a go’ on the music team is not necessarily a good basis for whether or not they should be invited to join the team, and can sometimes even be from a wrong motivation. Remember that the aim is for church to be a place that will most effectively help the word of Christ dwell in everyone’s heart – giving everybody a go is not going to be a helpful way to make that happen.
Interesting. I think you have misinterpreted alot taht I’ve said but thats ok. With some things you’ve said here I’ll agree to disagree otheriwse this would just go on forever because we’re looking at it from completely different perspectives and thats ok. Also I wasn’t talking about Sam. Good to hear about the training.